Vad är det som pekar på att det var 6 miljoner judar...

Politiska ideologier, ekonomiska strategier och lagfrågor.

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Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 08 apr 2010 22:47

Zokrates skrev:
Rorschach skrev:
Euklides skrev:Det är inte poängen. Poängen är snarare hur vi ser på historia och vad som anses vara helt vederlagt och framför allt vad som inte får diskuteras.


Har du något exempel på något sådant som inte får diskuteras?


Får eller inte får diskuteras, det finns väl inga förbud, däremot är det inte alltid politiskt korrekt att börja tala om alla de folkmord som olika ledande västländer begått före andra världkriget, för varför enbart fördöma Turkarnas folkmord på Armenier för 90 år sedan, men inte fördöma Engelsmännens dito folkmord och tvångsförflyttningar och det inte bara i mellanöstern utan runt om i världen som pågick under en bra mycket längre tid, för att inte tala om Tyskarnas, Belgarnas, Holländarnas och Fransmännens sammanlagt miljontals dödade, fördrivna och plundrade offer. När vi ändå är igång kan vi ju fördöma Tsarriket, Sovjetunionen, Kina, Japan, USA, Sydafrika, och så vidare tills ingen är utelämnad, inte ens romarriket eller det kortvariga  kung Davids Israel, eftersom folkmord och krig oftast inkluderat varandra.

Det enda raka hade varit att dra ett streck över allt som hänt före FN,s bildande, men då hade det ju även inkluderat förintelsen, men bortsett detta så verkar det ändå ganska uppenbart att det idag är ok att klandra muslimer men inte kristna för gamla illdåd, vilket klart visar att politiker inte skall ägna sig åt idiotiska fördömanden som bygger på att trycka på en ja eller nej knapp.


Tja varför totar du inte ihop något om att det som sägs om dem, enligt den gängse uppfattningen, att du ifrågasätter vad forskarna säger etc. Mysko.

Nåväl vi har alla vår agenda, nu över till mer ref listor från mig.
Fridens Liljor

Användarvisningsbild
Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 08 apr 2010 22:55

Så Ankorman så kör vi på:

•H-Holocaust Link (H-Net). Humanities and Social Sciences Online (H-Net) is a large site providing scholarly book reviews and other high-quality materials. Additionally, the site provides helpful links for specific subjects related to history, including the Holocaust. The Holocaust links are helpful and include many sites not mentioned in the above Holocaust History site. Access: http://www.h-net.org/~holoweb/links.

•Holocaust Links (Holocaust History Site). The Holocaust History Site will be discussed in the historical sites section, but one part of it provides five pages of annotated links to Holocaust resources. All the recommended sites are excellent, and the brief descriptions of those sites are helpful. Access: http://www.holocaust-history.org/links.

•The Holocaust (About.com). This About.com site provides links for several different categories, including: Holocaust basics, camps, ghettos, victims, persecution, resistance, Nazis, museums and memorials, and book and movie reviews. Access: http://history1900s.about.com/od/holoca ... ocaust.htm.

•The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. The site describes the museum as “a living memorial to the Holocaust, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum inspires citizens and leaders worldwide to confront hatred, promote human dignity, and prevent genocide.” The museum site has resources related to education, research, history, remembrance, and genocide. Access: http://www.ushmm.org.

•Yad Vashem. This site focuses on four primary areas in providing an ongoing memorial to the Holocaust: documentation, research, education, and commemoration. Of particular interest are the database of victims’ names and the material on righteous gentiles of the Holocaust. Access: http://www.yadvashem.org.

Historical sites
•The Holocaust History Project. The site is “a free archive of documents, photographs, recordings, and essays regarding the Holocaust, including direct refutation of Holocaust-denial.” The large collection of essays related to historical aspects of the Holocaust make this site unique. Access: http://holocaust-history.org.

•Holocaust Timeline (The History Place). The History Place is a comprehensive site providing information on historical events and periods. It has an excellent set of Holocaust links, discussed above, and it also has a useful Holocaust timeline. The timeline is extremely detailed and is 17 pages long. It also contains links to guide the reader to more information. Access: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/h ... eline.html.


View larger version:
In this pageIn a new window•Internet Modern History Source-book: Holocaust. Paul Halsall has created several detailed history-related sourcebooks, and the one related to modern history has a large section on the Holocaust. Subjects covered include anti-Semitism, the “Final Solution,” ordinary Germans, and non-Jewish Holocaust victims. Access: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/modsbook44/html.


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In this pageIn a new window•The Nizkor Project. This site is devoted to refuting those who deny that the Holocaust occurred. In so doing, it draws upon a large amount of historical evidence that points to the reality of the Holocaust. While the site certainly refutes Holocaust-denial, it also is helpful for learning more of the historical events related to the Holocaust. Access: http://www.nizkor.org.


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In this pageIn a new windowReference sites
•The Felix Posen Bibliographic Project. This searchable online bibliography covers the topic of anti-Semitism, and it addresses all topics related to the Holocaust. One can search by author, title, subject, keyword, and journal name. Access: http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/bibsear.html.

•The Holocaust Chronicle. This site originates from an excellent book, and “it includes the book’s complete text and index, plus all of the book’s images. Because Holocaust-related developments cross news wires daily, the Web site is regularly updated.” Thus this is a very informative and helpful site. Access: http://www.holocaustchronicle.org.


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In this pageIn a new window•Holocaust Encyclopedia. This resource is part of the larger United States Holocaust Memorial Museum site, and its articles cover such broad categories as the Third Reich, rescue and resistance, the Holocaust, after the Holocaust, and victims of the Nazi era. One can search for specific topics or browse the subjects in the encyclopedia. Access: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en.

•Holocaust Glossary. Ths glossary is part of the larger site, “A Teacher’s Guide to the Holocaust,” which is discussed below. The glossary provides short definitions for more than 100 terms related to the Holocaust. Access: http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/RESOURCE/glossary.htm.

•The Jewish Virtual Library: The Holocaust. The Jewish Virtual Library calls itself a “source for information about Jewish history, Israel, U.S.-Israel relations, the Holocaust, anti-Semitism, and Judaism.” The section of this online library devoted to the Holocaust guides the reader to excellent historical and informational resources. Access: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/holo.html.

•Remember.org: A Cybrary of the Holocaust. According to the site, “Remember. org offers contributors (survivors, liberators, historians, and teachers) a place to connect and share the best research resources and stories through art, photography, painting audio/video, and remembrance.” As such, the cybrary is an online collection of interesting items, some of which are more scholarly in nature and others of which are more personal. Access: http://remember.org.


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In this pageIn a new windowSubject-specific sites
•Avalon Project: International Military Tribunal for Germany. The Avalon Project, affiliated with Yale University, provides a large amount of primary source historical material online. This particular part of the Avalon Project has material from the Nuremburg Trials, much of which is related to the Holocaust. Access: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp.

•Business and the Holocaust. It is easy to overlook the close relationship between corporations and the Holocaust experience. This site “provides information leading up to the Holocaust showing major ties between corporations and the Nazis with articles, book excerpts, historical and recent news media reports, war crimes trial transcripts, government, and organization resources.” This is a unique and excellent site. Access: http://www.stockmaven.com/holocaust.htm.

•Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies. This archive is “a collection of more than 4,400 videotaped interviews with witnesses and survivors of the Holocaust.” A portion of the segments of the interviews is available online. The archive is associated with Yale University’s Sterling Memorial Library. Access: http://www.library.yale.edu/testimonies.


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In this pageIn a new window•The Einsatzgruppen. The Einsatzgruppen were mobile killing groups whose task was to kill Jews in the territory captured in Russia. The site contains a “collection of documents, testimonies, trial transcripts and photographs documenting the brutal history of the Einsatzgruppen mobile killing units.” Access: http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com.

•Literature of the Holocaust. This site is maintained by Al Filreis, Kelly Professor of English at the University of Pennsylvania. It provides nine pages of alphabetically-arranged links to sites on Holocaust literature. One can also search the entire site by keyword. Access: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/ ... lhome.html.

•A Teacher’s Guide to the Holocaust. The site describes itself as “an overview of the people and events of the Holocaust through photographs, documents, art, music, movies, and literature.” The resources are geared particularly for the teacher, and it includes activities that can be used. Access: http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust.

Discussion lists
•Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies. This moderated discussion list has more than 3,000 subscribers and focuses on academic research related to the Holocaust. Subscribe: CAHS@LISTSERV.USHMM.ORG.

•H-Genocide. This is “a discussion network for professional scholars, survivors of genocide, authors, historians and other interested people working in genocide studies and related fields.” There are more than 600 subscribers to this list. Subscribe: LISTSERV@H-NET.MSU.EDU.

•H-Holocaust. This discussion list addresses the Holocaust and “closely related topics like anti-semitism, and Jewish history in the 1930s and 1940s . . .” The site is focused on the interests of academics, but others can participate, as well. Approximately 1,300 people subscribe to this list. Subscribe: LISTSERV@H-NET.MSU.EDU.

•USHMM-T. This is the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum’s discussion list for Holocaust teachers. There are more than 250 subscribers to this list. Subscribe: USHMM-T@LISTSERV.USHMM.ORG

Electronic journals
•Studies in Christian-Jewish Relations. Published by the Center for Christian-Jewish Learning at Boston College, this journal addresses historical and contemporary issues related to the relationships between members of these two religious groups. While not focused specifically on the Holocaust, issues regarding it and the broader subject of anti-Semitism appear frequently in its articles. Access: http://escholarship.bc.edu/scjr.

•War Crimes, Genocide and Crimes against Humanity. This journal is “a multidisciplinary, peer-reviewed scholarly journal dedicated to understanding the conceptualization, etiology, and prevention of violations of international criminal and humanitarian law.” Access: http://www.war-crimes.org.



3. JEWISHGEN FAMILY FINDER (JGFF)
The JewishGen Family Finder (JGFF) is a computer-indexed compilation of surnames and towns currently being researched by over 85,000 Jewish genealogists worldwide.  It contains over 450,000 entries: 100,000 ancestral surnames and 18,000 town names, and is indexed and cross-referenced by both surname and town name.  The JGFF was created by Gary Mokotoff, and is maintained by JewishGen, Inc., a not-for-profit corporation.

Researchers should check the JGFF for genealogists with similar research interests, and can then contact them for exchange of information. The JGFF is a great networking tool, which is updated daily online.

Searching: You can search the JGFF online at http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff.

Contributing your entries: Anyone may submit their ancestral surnames/towns for inclusion in the JGFF, free of charge.  All Jewish genealogists are encouraged to participate. To add your ancestral surnames and towns to the JGFF, go to http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff.

For complete information about the JGFF, see the JGFF FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions about the JGFF.


Back to Table of Contents

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4. BOOKS
Useful resources for Jewish genealogy include:

Avotaynu Guide to Jewish Genealogy.  Edited by Sallyann Amdur Sack and Gary Mokotoff.  (Bergenfield, NJ: Avotaynu, 2004).  608 pages.  ($85).  ISBN 1-866223-17-3.

Where Once We Walked: A Guide to the Jewish Communities Destroyed in the Holocaust.  By Gary Mokotoff and Sallyann Amdur Sack, with Alexander Sharon.  Revised Edition. (Bergenfield, NJ: Avotaynu, 2002).  736 pages.  ISBN 0-886223-15-7.  {A gazetteer of over 23,500 Central and Eastern European localities, arranged alphabetically and phonetically, with references for each locality}.  ($85).  [First Edition was 1991, 514 pages, ISBN 0-9626373-1-9].

Genealogical Resources in the New York.  Revised and Edited by Estelle M. Guzik. (New York: Jewish Genealogical Society, 2003). 425 pages.  {A detailed guide to every agency in New York City and environs that could provide data useful to Jewish genealogical research}.  ($50). ISBN 0-9621863-1-7.  [More info.  Previous edition was Genealogical Resources in the New York Metropolitan Area, 1989. 404 pages. ISBN 0-9621863-0-9.]

A Guide to Jewish Genealogical Research in Israel.  By Sallyann Amdur Sack and the Israel Genealogical Society. (Teaneck, NJ: Avotaynu, Inc., 1995).  256 pages. ($35). ISBN 0-9626373-7-8.

Sourcebook for Jewish Genealogies and Family Histories.  By David S. Zubatsky and Irwin M. Berent. (Teaneck, NJ: Avotaynu, Inc., 1996).  480 pages.  {A guide to over 22,000 published and manuscript genealogies in archives and libraries worldwide, arranged by surname}.  ($69.50). ISBN 0-886223-033.  [Earlier editions: (New York: Garland, 1984, 1991). Two volumes: 422 pages, 452 pages. ISBN 0-8240-9028-4].

The Encyclopedia of Jewish Genealogy, Volume I: Sources in the United States and Canada.  Edited by Arthur Kurzweil and Miriam Weiner. (Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson, Inc., 1991).  226 pages.  {A summary of North American record repositories and their holdings, with some useful appendices}.  ($40). ISBN 0-87668-835-0.

Do People Grow on Family Trees? Genealogy for Kids and Other Beginners.  By Ira Wolfman. (New York: Workman Publishing, 1991).  179 pages.  {"The Official Ellis Island Handbook".  A good introduction for people of all ages}.  ($10). ISBN 0-89480-348-4.

American-oriented genealogical guides are available at any public library.  Beware that these works usually focus strictly on Anglo-American ancestry, concentrating on such topics as Revolutionary and Civil War records, land records, pioneer trails, church and town records, the Colonial period, etc.  They usually ignore sources important for Jewish researchers such as immigration and naturalization records, but are useful for their methodology.

Some recommended books are:

Greenwood, Val D.  The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy. 3rd edition. (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2000).  676 pages. ($30). ISBN 0-8063-1621-7.
[2nd edition (1990) was 623 pages, ISBN 0-8062-1267-X].

Doane, Gilbert H. and James B. Bell.  Searching for Your Ancestors: The How and Why of Genealogy. 6th edition. (Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1992).  352 pages. ($20). ISBN 0-8166-6990-5.

The Source: A Guidebook of American Genealogy.  Edited by Loretto Dennis Szucs and Sandra Hargreaves Luebking. Revised Edition. (Salt Lake City: Ancestry, Inc., 1984, 1996).  834 pages. ($50). ISBN 0-916489-67-1.
[Upcoming Third Edition: May 2006, 992 pages, ISBN 1593312776].

Ancestry's Red Book: American State, County and Town Sources. Third Edition.  Edited by Alice Eichholz. (Provo, Utah: Ancestry, Inc., 2004).  900 pages. ($50). ISBN 1593311664.
[2nd edition (1992) was 858 pages, ISBN 0-916489-47-7].

Guide to Genealogical Research in the National Archives. Third Edition. (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2001).  420 pages. ($25 / $39). ISBN 0-911333-00-2.
[2nd edition (1985) was 304 pages, ISBN 0-911333-01-0].


Holocaust History
USHMM History of the Holocaust Center
www.ushmm.org/holocaust/
Along with information on the museum, this website has a “holocaust encyclopedia,” education resources including an online teachers’ workshop and lesson plans, links to their library and archives, information on the Day of Remembrance, and information on current genocides.

USHMM Online Holocaust Encyclopedia
www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/
Part of the USHMM website, the encyclopedia portion defines in detail important Holocaust terms. A thorough, if basic, introduction in 5 languages.

Holocaust Cybrary
www.remember.org/
A good collection of images from the Holocaust, online interviews with survivors, perpetrators, liberators, and witnesses, and an illustrated list of concentration camps.

Holocaust History Project
www.holocaust-history.org/
An easily searched online archive of documents, photographs, recordings, and essays regarding the Holocaust.

Simon Wiesenthal Foundation’s Museum of Tolerance Online – Multimedia Learning Center
motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.aspx?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=358201
A multimedia learning center with teachers’ resources, virtual past exhibits from the museum, and 93 digitized documents from their special collections.

History Place-Holocaust timeline
www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html
A historical timeline that is very easy to navigate from year to year during the war.

NAAF Project timeline (day by day, year by year)
www.neveragain.org/time.htm
A very detailed historical timeline for the years 1933-1945.

Wikipedia’s Holocaust webpage
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
An encyclopedia styled overview of the Holocaust including photographs and links.

Jewish Virtual Library’s Holocaust Wing
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/holo.html
A detailed bibliography of the Holocaust and World War II with a list of important terms and links to their definitions.

The Nizkor Project
www.nizkor.org/
A useful source for information on concentration camps and important places during the Holocaust, information on the Nuremberg trials, and Holocaust research guides.

History in Focus – Holocaust Page
www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/Holocaust/websites.html
A source for finding websites on the Holocaust with detailed annotations.

The Holocaust Chronicle
www.holocaustchronicle.org/
A complete online edition of the book The Holocaust Chronicle with keyword, page, and index search.

David Dickerson’s Holocaust Page
ddickerson.igc.org/holocaust.html
This website has links to educational resources, other Holocaust organizations, and conference archives.

Holocaust Genocide Project
www.iearn.org/hgp/
Has a link to “iEarn,” which is an interactive network for teachers and students. The program HGP focuses on the study of the Holocaust and has a student magazine and trips to Poland and Israel. Has an excellent, comprehensive links page.

German Propaganda Archive
www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/
Online essays, pamphlets, and speeches of Nazi propaganda from 1933 to 1945 and German Marxist propaganda from 1949 to 1989.

Jewish Partisans Educational Foundation
www.jewishpartisans.org/
Biographies of Jewish partisans, curriculum for educators, and information for students on partisans.

Resistance in Drome & Deportation
www.resistance-drome.org/uk/
Information on the Historical Center of the Resistance in Drome and Deportation which focuses on the French resistance to the Nazis.

Nuremberg Trials Project
nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/docs_swi.php?DI=1&text=overview
A huge collection of digitalized documents from the Nuremberg trials.

Auschwitz Alphabet
www.spectacle.org/695/ausch.html
27 key terms related to Auschwitz, one for each letter of the alphabet, and their definitions.

Inside the Nazi State (from Corporation for Public Broadcasting)
www.pbs.org/auschwitz/
Has interactive maps of the camps, a timeline, information on the PBS series, and basics on Auschwitz and Dachau.

The Arnold Liebster Foundation
www.alst.org/pages-us/index-us.html
Focuses on Nazi persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses with survivors testimonies and education information.

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Holocaust Education
The text of HR 477: The Holocaust Education and Awareness Act of 2001
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.477.IH:
From the Library of Congress, the text of HR477 which provides grants for Holocaust education.


Teacher’s Guide to the Holocaust
fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/default.htm
A series of timelines from 1918 to 2000, descriptions of the groups involved in the Holocaust, information on the art and literature of the Holocaust, and lesson plans.

Holocaust Education Foundation, Inc. – Holocaust Teachers Resource Center
www.holocaust-trc.org/
Has links to their speaker’s bureau, lesson plans, essays, and book reviews.

Facing History and Ourselves
www.facing.org/
Not specifically Holocaust related; a resource for teachers offering lesson plans, curriculum, and classroom strategies for teaching about genocide.

USHMM Education page
www.ushmm.org/education/
Resource for teachers and students; has a Holocaust encyclopedia, materials, and activities for students and workshops and lesson plans for teachers.

Council of Holocaust Educators
www.che-nj.org/
A list of organizations, museums, exhibits, and resources for teachers.

Holocaust and Jewish Studies Site
facultystaff.vwc.edu/~dgraf/holocaus.htm
A comprehensive list of websites related to the Holocaust and Jewish studies.

March of the Living
www.motl.org/
Information on the March of the Living and a curriculum guide for teachers.

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Bibliographies and Videographies
US Holocaust Memorial Museum’s Annotated Bibliography for Teachers
www.ushmm.org/education/foreducators/re ... graphy.pdf
A pdf of an annotated bibliography with books according to the age of students.

Teacher’s Guide to the Holocaust Bibliography
fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/books.htm
Bibliographies categorized by age group and subject.

Remember.org’s Annotated Bibliography
www.remember.org/educate/anbib1.html
An annotated bibliography of books on the Holocaust.

Sonoma State University’s Holocaust Study List
www.sonoma.edu/people/g/goodman/booklist.htm
Four annotated bibliography for university age students studying the Holocaust.

Holocaust Teacher Resource Center Annotated Videography
www.holocaust-trc.org/video_res1.htmƒ
Annotated list of videos related to the Holocaust.

Midwest Center for Holocaust Education Annotated Videography
http://www.mchekc.org/PDFFiles/Teacher% ... graphy.pdf
Annotated list of videos with subject matter and running times.

Anti-Semitism - Neo-Nazi – Holocaust Denial Activities
Anti-Defamation League
www.adl.org/
The website for the human rights organization that fights anti-Semitism has information and news articles on civil rights, the Holocaust, interfaith relations, Israel, terrorism and much more.

ADL's Hate on Display: A Visual Database of Extremist Symbols, Logos & Tattoos
www.adl.org/hate_symbols/default.asp
An online database of extremist symbols, logos, and tattoos with origin and current connotations.

ADL's Extremism in America
www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/default.asp?LE ... d=1&item=0
Information on extremist groups, movements, and individuals in the United States.

Attempted Nazi March of 1977 & 1978 in Skokie:
www.skokiepubliclibrary.info/s_info/in_ ... /index.asp
Digitized material on an attempted Nazi march in Skokie, Illinois in 1978.

Internet Public Library (IPL) Holocaust Denial pathfinder
www.ipl.org/div/pf/entry/48483
Sources and bibliographies of books on Holocaust denial.

Other Holocaust Libraries and Centers
Association of Holocaust Organizations
www.ahoinfo.org/
Information on the Association of Holocaust Organizations, member directories, and event listings.

US Holocaust Memorial Museum
www.ushmm.org/research/library/index.ph ... =weblinks/
Has an excellent links page as well as an online encyclopedia, resources for educators, and museum information.

Yad Vashem
www.yadvashem.org/
Has information about the organization, publications, links, press, and collections.

Ghetto Fighter’s Museum/Israel (English language site)
gfh.org.il/eng/
Information on the museum, educational activities, archives, and workshops.

Holocaust Memorial Center
holocaustcenter.org/
Information and events at the center.

Holocaust Museum Houston
www.hmh.org/default.asp
Information on the museum and programs.

Holocaust Documentation and Education Center
www.hdec.org
Information on the museum, their oral history project, archives, and educational outreach programs.

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Oral Histories Centers
Survivors of the Shoah – Visual History Project
www.vhf.org/
A collection of online testimonies as well as information about the full collection held in their archives.

Fortunoff Video Archives for Holocaust Testimonies
www.library.yale.edu/testimonies/homepage.html
Catalogue of interviews with witnesses and survivors held at Yale University.

Voice/Vision Holocaust Survivor Oral History Archive
holocaust.umd.umich.edu/
An oral history collection of Holocaust survivors.

Other Libraries/Centers
Yivo Institute
www.yivoinstitute.org/archlib/archlib_fr.htm
Information about the archive, including its collection of huge collection Yizkor books and Jewish genealogy resources.

NYPL Yizkor Books Online
www.nypl.org/research/chss/jws/yizkorbooks_intro.cfm
The New York Public Library’s collection of Yizkor books are held at the library and can also be found online in digitized form.

National Yiddish Book Center
www.yiddishbookcenter.org/
Information and online resources about this library of Yiddish and modern Jewish books

activities
Holocaust Activities
antisemitism
BEYOND THE PALE:  The Development of Modern Anti-Semitism
Antisemitism and The Holocaust
ANTI-SEMITISM AND THE HOLOCAUST
Anti-Semitism and Holocaust - Christian Action for Israel
SICSA The Felix Posen Bibliographic Project on Antisemitism
Timeline of Antisemitism Before the Holocaust

correspondence
Brentar to Pfoch, June 18, 1984
concepts
AUSCHWITZ AND THE "FINAL SOLUTION OF THE JEWISH QUESTION"
Hitler and the Final Solution
denial
Holocaust Denial and Deniers
Holocaust Denial On Trial
Nizkor: a Response to Holocaust Denial
Pratique de l'histoire et dévoiements négationnistes
educational
Anti-Bias Teacher Education Project:
Education -- WECKSTEIN'S LANGUAGE ARTS PAGE
Holocaust/Anne Frank Research
Holocaust and Genocide Studies
Holocaust and Jewish Studies Sites
Holocaust, Genocide, & Human Rights
Holocaust Remembrance Day, Social Studies, Glencoe
Holocaust Studies
The Holocaust WebQuest
Ideas & Bibliography
K-4 Holocaust Education Conference in Hamburg
Social Studies School Service Holocaust Studies
A Teacher's Guide to the Holocaust
Teaching the Holocaust through Stamps
Vermont-NEA / Holocaust Curriculum

resources
En Dansk Holocaust-ressource
A Holocaust Resource Page
courses
GENOCIDE AND THE HOLOCAUST
Syllabus for HY 347 -- The Holocaust
general
THE HOLOCAUST\SHOAH PAGE
The Holocaust ("Shoah") "The Final Solution"
HOLOCAUST=SHOAH
Shoah - Holocaust
Shoah:  The Holocaust
SHOAH:  The Holocaust and Antisemitism
holocaust
The Holocaust Album
H-HOLOCAUST HOME PAGE
Shamash: Holocaust Home Page
GUIDE THROUGH THE HOLOCAUST
The Holocaust (1933-1945)
The Holocaust
The Holocaust
the holocaust.com
HOLOCAUST
Holocaust
Holocaust
Holocaust
Holocaust
Holocaust
Olokaustos
shoah
Crosspoint - Shoah
Shoah
other
AKENS
Jeff and Elliott's Holocaust Page
Survival Manual for Humanity
virtual jerusalem AMCHA
Young Israel of Brookline WW-II and the Holocaust
historical
Facing History Web Home Page
Flashback: This Month in History
 The History Place - Holocaust Timeline
www.history-of-the-holocaust.org
documentation
DHM, Document4 II, holding
Documents Relating to the Holocaust
1871:  Germany Adopts Paragraph 175
international
geographical
COLLECTIVE MEMORY AND COLLECTIVE IDENTITY: JEWS, RUSYNS
Jews and Iceland, until 1940
Kishinev-Historical overview
Martires de Rodas
Ukrainian-related news stories from RFE
nationalities
american
The American Experience | America and the Holocaust
bulgarian
The Optimists - The Bulgarian Jews and their survival during the Holocaust
Salvation of Bulgarian Jewry During WW II
dutch
The Dutch Holocaust Myth
Jewish War Claims in the Netherlands:  A Case Study
french
Étude de la persécution des gais en Allemagne nazie.
Quelques liens pour garder mémoire
german
Holocaust Translations
Shoah-Projekt Titelseite
italian
Saluting Italian Holocaust Heroes
Yad Vashem to Honor Giovanni Palatucci, Unlikely Italian Hero
japanese
The Jews of Kobe
ƒz?[ƒ?
polish
History of the Jews in Poland
LNT Poland - Polish Jews in World War II
romanian
Greg Mossgfelt - In Search of The Struma
The Struma
Struma's wreck discovered!
spanish
El Holocausto
swiss
Synthesis
legal
The Avalon Project : The International Military Tribunal
Executive Order 14
Excerpts from German Court Judgements
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Dietrich Bonhoeffer Home Page
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Interview with Miep Gies
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Jan Karski: A Hero of the Holocaust
Jan Karski Dies at 86; Warned West About Holocaust
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The Peshev Memorial Home Page
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Fridens Liljor

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Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 08 apr 2010 23:06

Ankorman, så du sa 4 miljoner (däromkring) döda judar vart tog de då vägen? Du har inte besvarat den frågan än.

Du postar massa källor varav minst hälften är uppenbara lögnare eller uppenbart otillförlitliga,

Vilka då? Vilka kriterier använder du för detta? (nu kommer vi åter till detta med att skapa egna kriterier för bevis på vilket man tex kan avfärda att Palme mördades)

vad är det du vill säga med det?

Vad tror du? Det är väl självklart.

För övrigt är jag inte säker på att den officiella historien är så "gängse uppfattning" bland historiker..

Jag vet att du tycker så.  

Det är just det vi snackar om. Men läs igen vad jag sa om paradigmskiften, ny syn, ny kunskap. Tror du inte på det tror du på konspirationsteorier.....i och med att du är lekman.
Fridens Liljor

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Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 08 apr 2010 23:22

Ankorman

Se det så här:

Sergels Torg. 800 person bevittnar en man på mitten av plattan.
Frågar man dessa som var där och bevittnade detta kommer 90% med säkerhet säga att de såg en grönklädd man tokdansa på torget. 4,9% minns inte och någon promillle kommer säga att det var en blåklädd man, typ , eller gråklädd man som gjorde något, inte säkert riktigt vad.

För att då inte tro på den stora majoriteten om den grönklädda mannen så bör man bevisa att de led av en masshalisunation. I annat fall så torde deras vittnesmål, fakta etc acccepteras. Hålller du med? Detta var verkligenheten för de flesta (låt oss skippa detta med en filosofisk  diskussion om verkligeheten gällande detta)

Så dina ideer, dina teorier. Vad säger de som jobbar, som är insatta i detta, som forskar i historia? Nyfiken. Vad har du fått för gehör?
Fridens Liljor

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Anarkoman
Inlägg: 81
Blev medlem: 13 sep 2007 20:13

Inläggav Anarkoman » 08 apr 2010 23:44

Kalle varför postar du massa skit som bara tar upp plats i tråden och som ingen läser, inte ens du? Kan du inte sluta med det och börja tillföra något med substans istället. Alla kan googla och länka inte bara du så ingen blir imponerad. Sluta med ditt "så kör vi på" är du snäll, det tar bara energi från alla som är genuint intresserade. Du frågade vart 4 miljoner tog vägen? Jag har aldrig påstått att 4 miljoner försvunnit, det får vi nog tillskriva dig. Vad man däremot VET är att även de s.k. "rena dödslägren som inte lämnade några överlevande blablabla" uppenbarligen fungerade som transitläger som det finns dokumentära bevis för, jürgen graf skriver om Treblinka II:
That Treblinka served, among other things, as a transit camp to Majdanek and other work camps in the Lublin area is admitted even by the Jewish historians Tatiana Berenstein and Adam Rutkowski. In the verdict of the Demjanjuk trial in Jerusalem certain former Jewish deportees were named who arrived in Majdanek after a short stay in Treblinka. It is more difficult to prove that Jews were deported from Treblinka to the occupied Soviet areas, but at least one solidly documented proof exists. On July 31, 1942, one week after the opening of Treblinka, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, excitedly objected to Reichskomissar for the Eastern territories Heinrich Lohse against the transportation of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw to Minsk, on the grounds that these Jews represented a danger as potential carriers of epidemics and as supporters of the partisans. At that time all deported Jews from Warsaw arrived in Treblinka, so that those 1,000 Jews must have been sent through that camp to Minsk. This one transport already is enough to shake the foundations of the story of the "pure extermination camp," in which every Jew except for a handful of "work Jews" was immediately murdered. Whoever objects that this transport is merely an exception must ask himeself how many other such "exceptions" existed.


här kan ni läsa mer om det, det står också annat intressant som sökandet efter massgravar, hur officiella treblinkahistorien ändrats och Yitzhak Arads historieförfalskning (var det inte du som hänvisade till honom Kalle?) http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Graf97-101.html
"Alla människor vill andas men ingen kan andas och många säger: Vi skall andas sen och de flesta dör inte för de är redan döda" - Paris -68

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Anarkoman
Inlägg: 81
Blev medlem: 13 sep 2007 20:13

Inläggav Anarkoman » 08 apr 2010 23:55

Ja fast nu är det ju inte 800 utan närmare en handfull som bevittnat massgasningar, samtliga har påvisats vara lögnare och ingen tas på allvar antagligen inte heller av Raul Hilberg och andra, får man faktiskt säga, seriösa historiker. De som "överlevt massgasningarna" har utöver att ha ändrat sina utsagor flera gånger gett mkt märkliga motstridiga uppgifter... För övrigt orkar jag inte gå igenom din lista nu men jag har redan påvisat brister i flera av dina s.k. "seriösa historiker".

Om du fortfarande är seriös med dina s.k. vittnesmål utmanar jag dig att posta vittnen och vittnesmål så försöker jag vederlägga dem, är det okej med dig?
"Alla människor vill andas men ingen kan andas och många säger: Vi skall andas sen och de flesta dör inte för de är redan döda" - Paris -68

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Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 08 apr 2010 23:56

Kalle varför postar du massa skit som bara tar upp plats i tråden och som ingen läser, inte ens du?

Vad för skit? Hur gick det med de 50% som du sa inte stämde?

Kan du inte sluta med det och börja tillföra något med substans istället. '

Du menar att tycka och tro vad man vill och inte referera till fakta? Substans tja vad är det eg.  :)

Du frågade vart 4 miljoner tog vägen? Jag har aldrig påstått att 4 miljoner försvunnit, det får vi nog tillskriva dig.

Då kör vi på du sa:

Det dog exakt 4 miljoner 256 tusen 311 personer


Inte dåligt men låt då säga 4 miljoner så är vi väl på den säkra sidan. Så vart tog de vägen tror du?


Och sen skickar du in En, 1 säger 1 ref. Joda den var skön. Sätt i kontrast med de andra rösterna. Några tokdårar kan man alltid få tag i. Helheten, väga samman, bedömma, överväga, metoder, vad gäller etc. Det är det intressanta.

Har går det med forskarvärlden? Vad har du fått för respons ang. dina ideer?
Fridens Liljor

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Anarkoman
Inlägg: 81
Blev medlem: 13 sep 2007 20:13

Inläggav Anarkoman » 09 apr 2010 00:13

Jag kunde inte tro att ens du uppfattade det seriöst. Det sa jag förstås bara för att visa hur löjlig du var. Om jag nu sagt att de dog, hur skulle jag kunna visa vart de tog vägen? Folk "tar inte vägen" när de dör, de förmultnar och försvinner eller förbränns.. Kanske missförstår jag dig för att jag är trött..

Det fattar väl du också att jag inte orkar leta upp och motbevisa 500 källor inom loppet av 20 minuter?

som du ser så refererar jag nästan alltid till vart jag hämtar information.

Om det nu är viktigt tror jag inte i närheten av fyra miljoner dog, snarare mellan 500 000 och 2 miljoner.

Jag är inte ensam om mina idéer, det finns många som forskar i den här frågan och om inte de med all sin expertis (som är låt oss säga 1000 gånger större än min) kan övertyga vilka du nu refererar till, hur ser mina utsikter ut att övertyga dem? Egentligen är jag inte insatt i hur debatten mellan revisionister och deras antagonister ser ut i detalj men jag länkade en debatt tidigare i tråden, såg du den?
"Alla människor vill andas men ingen kan andas och många säger: Vi skall andas sen och de flesta dör inte för de är redan döda" - Paris -68

Användarvisningsbild
Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 09 apr 2010 00:22

Det fattar väl du också att jag inte orkar leta upp och motbevisa 500 källor inom loppet av 20 minuter?

Ge det några minuter till då.

Om det nu är viktigt tror jag inte i närheten av fyra miljoner dog, snarare mellan 500 000 och 2 miljoner.

Varför inte säga mellan 20 000- 10 mille så säger det än lite mindre.

Jag är inte ensam om mina idéer, det finns många som forskar i den här frågan

Bra seriös forskning är alltid bra. Många kan betyda allt från 2 st till miljoner så vad säger det. Forskar...seriöst?, med det menar du vad? Det du håller på med då eller?

Nåväl. Vi får avvakta om synen på det hele ändras.


Här intressant:

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ON "REVISIONISM" AND THE HOLOCAUST
This short series of questions and answers is intended as a quick introduction to a variety of topics that are often raised in respect of "revisionism" and the Holocaust. Readers are encouraged to check out the links to other articles on this web site for more complete information.

1) What is historical revisionism?

As the word implies, historical revisionism is the exercise whereby historians revise their opinions on historical events in the face of new evidence. It is an essential part of the history writing process. "Revisionism" (with quotes) is a distortion of history practiced by persons, usually inspired by antisemitism or a desire to rehabilitate the Nazis, or both. They deny that the Holocaust -- the attempted extermination of the Jews by Nazi Germany -- took place. The more accurate description of "revisionists", is "deniers". They describe themselves as revisionists because they think it gives them an air of respectability.

2) What is the Holocaust?

The attempted extermination of European Jewry by Nazi Germany, resulting in at least 6 million Jews dead. In addition, another 6 million non-Jews -- Gypsies, homosexuals, prisoners of war and others -- were murdered.

3) Do "revisionists" deny the Holocaust?

Yes, although they will claim they don't. See Question 4.

4) What aspects of the Holocaust do "revisionists" believe to be supported by evidence?

"Revisionists" claim to believe certain minor aspects of the Holocaust, in the hope they will appear reasonable. So, they will admit that some Jews suffered under the Nazis, and that there were some Nazi excesses, but deny an overall extermination plan. But once questioned, it becomes quickly apparent that their real position is as that they deny all of the major elements of the Holocaust: the plan to kill the Jews, mass shooting by the Einsatzgruppen, gassing at extermination camps such as Auschwitz and Treblinka, just to mention a few.

But it isn't quite that simple. There is a school of thought that holds that "revisionists" don't really believe the Holocaust didn't happen, but rather that they deny its occurrence in an attempt to foment antisemitism, rehabilitate Nazism, and/or enrich themselves.

5) Wasn't the Holocaust proven at the war crimes trials?

Yes. The Nuremberg Trials (the trial of the major war criminals 1945-46 and subsequent trials) established beyond a doubt that there had been a plan to exterminate the Jews and that the attempt was made to carry out that plan. Later trials in Germany in the 1950s and 1960s produced even more information about this.

6) Didn't the Nazis themselves admit there was a program to exterminate the Jews?

Yes, repeatedly. Statements, speeches and diary entries survive from such Nazis as Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Eichmann and many others that testify to the plan to kill the Jews. In addition, the documentary evidence, in the form of captured German documents, is staggering.

8) What was the Jewish "question"?

In short, the issue of what the Nazis were to do with the Jews. The "answer" was to murder them.

9) What was the "Final Solution of the Jewish question"?

The "final solution" was the attempt to physically annihilate all Jews under Nazi control. The reason it is called "final", as the Nazi documents attest, is that other solutions were attempted before this radical step was taken.

10) What is the origin of the six million figure?

The figure is at best a popular estimate of the number of Jews who killed by the Nazis during the Final Solution. Different historians have different approaches to arrive at estimates of the number killed. Some have based their estimates on demographic (population) analysis, others on records left behind by the Nazis, still others on analysis of different cause of death, others on Jewish records in the countries involved. Many have combined these methodologies. Estimates range from around 4.8 to 6 million Jews killed. As research continues, it begins to appear that the figure may be understated.

11) Why do "revisionists" not find the eyewitness testimony credible?

The simple answer is that it interferes with their attempt to deny the Holocaust. But to be fair, it should be pointed out that it is not the eyewitness testimony alone that bothers "revisionists", but rather the fact that the testimony from German perpetrators, Jewish survivors and neutral observers converges in the same result: the attempted annihilation of the Jews. It is this convergence of evidence, along with the documentary, scientific and photographic evidence, that is the most damning to the "revisionist" position.

12) What was the purpose of Nazi concentration camps like Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, and so forth?

First of all, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor and Chelmno were not concentration camps. They were "death camps" ("Vernichtungslager" in German). In those camps, the only purpose was to murder Jews. They were almost always gassed within a short time of arrival and very few were chosen to perform slave labour, such as was the case in Auschwitz. As an example, only about 7 Jews survived the Belzec extermination camp, although at least 550,000 were killed there. Auschwitz was a complex of camps; some Jews were killed in Auschwitz I (the main camp), but most were killed in Auschwitz II (Birkenau). Auschwitz III (Monowitz) was involved with production of synthetic rubber and other materials.

In addition, there were literally thousands of concentration camps where people were imprisoned, often under hideous conditions. But their intent was not primarily murder for its own sake.

13) Why was the Wannsee conference held? The understanding of the role of the Wannsee Conference is changing as new evidence is uncovered. For decades, it has been described as the conference that put the finishing touches on the administrative arrangements involved in the Final Solution. But new evidence unearthed by German historian Christian Gerlach would suggest that the ultimate decision to kill all the Jews may not have been taken by Hitler until December 11 or 12, 1941, and that Wannsee (originally scheduled for December 9, 1941, but postponed to January 20, 1942) was therefore the first meeting after the Hitler decision where the bureaucrats finally had the green light. Thus, it had a far more pivotal role.

14) What did Himmler refer to in his Posen speech?

Actually, Himmler made two speeches at Posen between October 4 and 6, 1943. He referred brutally and unequivocally to the policy and practice of exterminating the Jews. One of the speeches was recorded and still survives. Himmler's words have been described by German writer Joachim Fest as "one of the most horrifying testaments in the German language".

15) What did the term "selection" refer to?

It referred to selecting which Jews would be murdered immediately and which would be worked to near-death and then murdered. As Jews arrived at camps such as Auschwitz, they were visually inspected by SS doctors. The so-called "able to work" Jews were sent to one side, and those deemed unable to work were sent to the other side. This latter group -- always the large majority -- was immediately gassed. The process of deciding which Jews died immediately and which were spared for a time, was called the "selection".

16) What is Zyklon-B used for?

Zyklon B is the commercial name for a pesticide containing hydrogen cyanide in a carrier. It is normally used to exterminate vermin. The Nazis, especially at Auschwitz, used it to gas Jews.

17) Why would German documents designate Zyklon-B as material for Jewish resettlement?

"Resettlement" was a Nazi jargon word that was used to mean "kill" in any documents that it was feared might eventually become public.

18) Why were Jews required to wear a yellow hexagram (Star of David) on their clothing in Nazi Germany?

To mark them for easier identification. This served two purposes according to Raul Hilberg's seminal work The Destruction of the European Jews: first to humiliate them and alienate them from the non-Jewish German population and second, to make them easier to find when deportations began. There was also a system of badges in the concentration camps.

19) What role did the Einsatzgruppen play in the German war effort?

The Einsatzgruppen were not involved in the war effort. They existed to shoot Jews wherever they were found, especially in the "sweeps" of 1941 and 1943. As Mr. Justice Musmanno testified at the Eichmann Trial: "The purpose of the Einsatzgruppen was to murder Jews and deprive them of their property".

20) Why were so many dead bodies found in the Nazi camps when they were captured by Allied troops?

The camps found at the end of the war were not the extermination camps. They had been previously destroyed on the orders of Himmler. The camps liberated were concentration camps where many thousands died due to neglect (untreated disease and starvation) and torture.

21) What was the function of Treblinka camp?

Like the other death camps of Sobibor, Belzec and Chelmno, Treblinka existed exclusively to murder Jews. Approximately 750,000 were killed at Treblinka, mostly with carbon monoxide gas.

22) What evidence is used to prove the death camp story?

Nazi documents and photographs, statements by both camp commandants and camp personnel, statements by survivors and other Nazi officials who were there.

23) Why is the question of the gas chambers important?

The gas chambers are merely one of the methods used to kill the Jews. Shooting, deprivation, torture, etc. are equally important and were also used as part of the same process. "Revisionists" like to pretend that the Holocaust hinges principally on the gas chambers. They then demand to see a functioning one (knowing that they were destroyed on orders from Himmler), failing which they proclaim that the Holocaust is untrue.

24) How did the Holocaust story originate?

First of all, it is not a story, but rather a fact. The Nazis left behind massive documentation on it -- memos, orders, photographs, films. They also failed to kill all the Jews, some of whom survived to recall what happened. Their recollections corroborate the documentary and other evidence. Remains of murdered Jews have been found at several locations (most recently at Belzec), blueprints for gas chambers, crematoria and other instruments of death were left behind -- in short, the war ended before the Nazis could destroy all the evidence.

25) Did resistance to German occupation affect Nazi treatment of Jews in territory under their control?

Yes, they were usually among the first to suffer for any real or imagined resistance. German reprisals to any partisan activity usually were on the scale of 100 killed for each German killed.

26) How were Jewish ghettoes in Nazi territory administered?

The prisoners were fed at starvation levels, and forced to live in unimaginable filth and disease-ridden areas.

27) What events led up to the Kristallnacht pogrom?

The Kristallnacht (night of the broken glass) pogrom began after a Jew named Herschel Grynzspan murdered an official of the German legation in Paris. On November 9, 1938, Joseph Goebbels (the Propaganda minister) and Reinhard Heydrich (number 2 man at the SS) used that as an excuse to destroy thousands of synagogues throughout Germany. Hence, the expression "broken glass". Typically, the Nazi government, once it realized that the German insurance companies were liable for the billions of marks of damage, imposed a "fine" of a billion marks on the Jews.

28) What evidence is there that Jews were being "resettled" by the Nazis?

None. "Resettlement" meant deportation to, and death at, an extermination camp.

29) What was done with the bodies of the dead at the death camps?

They were cremated in crematoria, burned on open pits or buried, depending on the camp and the situation..

30) How good is testimony as a form of evidence?

Testimony is one of the prime methods of adducing evidence as thousands of trials have demonstrated over the centuries. It is most convincing when it is corroborated by other forms of evidence, such as documents, other witnesses, photographs, and so on, because testimony by itself may be imperfect due to a variety of human frailties. Historians have used testimony in this way, as part of a rich mosaic of evidence, when studying the Holocaust.

"Revisionists" like to claim that the entire Holocaust story rests on testimony. As only a cursory examination of this web site and the available literature will demonstrate, that allegation is completely untrue.

31) What did the Auschwitz camp commandant Rudolf Hoess confess about the Auschwitz camp?

He confessed about the origin, mission, operation and death toll for Auschwitz. His testimonies have been corroborated by documentation, eyewitness testimony by other Auschwitz personnel, survivors and subsequent research.

32) How was Hoess' confession obtained?

He was interrogated. "Revisionists" like to claim that he was tortured and that his testimony is therefore tainted. The evidence though shows that after having been roughed up by the British when first captured, his treatment thereafter was reasonable and that he testified freely at Nuremberg and at his own trial in Warsaw. He also wrote memoirs.

33) Where did concentrations of Jews exist in Europe before 1939?

The United States Holocaust Museum says there were about 9.5 millions Jews in Europe in 1933, with approximate national breakdown as follows:

Poland: 3,000,000
Soviet Union: 2,525,000
Romania: 980,000
Germany: 525,000
Hungary: 445,000
Czechoslovakia: 357,000
Great Britain: 300,000
Austria: 250,000
France: 220,000
Netherlands: 160,000
Lithuania: 155,000
Latvia: 95,000
The rest of the Jews were spread among another dozen or more countries.

34) Did the Allies have information during the war that indicated that exterminations were underway?

The Allies had Ultra intercepts on the early Einsatzgruppen shootings, as well as photographic and survivor evidence. In addition, several Jews escaped from extermination camps and passed their stories on to the Allies.

35) Are accounts of cremation pits at Auschwitz-Birkenau credible?

Yes. Photographs of the cremation pits exist and several people involved have testified to their existence.

36) What evidence exists for the charge that the Nazis used the bodies of Jews to make, among other things, soap and lampshades?

Some evidence exists that this was done on a small, experimental scale. In any event, it is not critical to the Holocaust, but rather a sadistic by-product of it. "Revisionists" try to use this red herring to deflect discussion from the overwhelming proof of the Holocaust.

37) What is the explanation for all the hair, shoes, eyeglasses, and other personal items found at Auschwitz?

They were taken from the murdered Jews.

38) What have forensic examinations of the extermination sites revealed?

Where such examinations have been carried out, they have revealed evidence of large-scale death. Large areas of ashes, body parts and other remains have been unearthed at Treblinka. Recently, a similar find was made at the Belzec death camp. This latest evidence is still being evaluated.

39) What is the Leuchter Report?

In the late 1980s, Fred Leuchter, funded by denier Ernst Zuendel, visited the Auschwitz extermination camp. Although trained only in the arts, he purported to gather evidence that the quantity of cyanide residue on the walls of the gas chambers is inconsistent with their having been used for mass gassings. His findings were almost immediately challenged, both on scientific and methodological grounds and have been completely disproved.

40) What do Himmler's diaries reveal about the final solution to the Jewish problem?

Among other things, they reveal that the Final Solution was intended to kill as many Jews as possible and that it was ordered by Hitler. For example, a recently unearthed diary entry from December 18, 1941 contains the words "Judenfrage/als Partisanen auszurotten" (Jewish Question/to be exterminated as partisans). This was written, as the entry indicates, after a meeting with Hitler. [quoted in Die Zeit, edition of January 9, 1998]

41) Who was Kurt Gerstein?

He was chief of the Waffen-SS Technical Disinfection Services. He visited Belzec with Professor Pfannenstiel and while there, witnessed a botched gassing van attempt where the engine refused to start for over two hours before the Jews could be gassed. He described the whole scene in detail. The next day, he witnessed gassings at Treblinka. In all, he estimates he saw 10,000 Jews gassed in two days at the two camps. His record is anathema to "revisionists", who like to claim there is no evidence of murder at Belzec and Treblinka.

42) Did Hitler order that the Jews be exterminated?

Yes. There is no doubt that Hitler personally ordered the extermination of the Jews. Apart from the fact that it is impossible that such an action could have been carried out in Nazi Germany without his knowledge and approval, there is sufficient evidence to establish that Hitler both willed and ordered the Final Solution. In addition to the Himmler diary entry referred to in Question 40, there are Hitler speeches, his Political Testament, and testimony by persons close to him (Albert Speer, Hitler's adjutants and support staff), diary entries by Joseph Goebbels (the Propaganda Minister and a close confidant), and other evidence that establish his culpability.

43) Does the reduction in the estimate of Jews murdered at Auschwitz from 4 million to 1 million mean that the overall Holocaust total of around 6 million should be reduced by 3 million?

No. The overall total of 6 million is not based, and never was, on 4 million killed at Auschwitz. The 4 million figure comes from a plaque erected at Auschwitz shortly after the War that talked about 4 million people (not Jews) having lost their lives there. It was erected by the Communists and based on an incorrect estimate of the numbers who would have been killed if the gas chambers had operated at maximum capacity all the time. They did not of course. The 4 million figure has never been used by serious historians of the Holocaust, with only one or two exceptions. The correct number, estimated by the Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess as early as 1946, is about 1.1 million, mostly Jews, and that is the number on the plaque today.

The overall total of around 6 million is based on demographic studies and analysis of Nazi train records that record the numbers of Jews shipped to Auschwitz during its existence. An example of the methodology used is in Raul Hilberg's Destruction of the European Jews.

44) How do you explain the fact that the World Almanac showed 15,319,359 Jews in the world in 1940 and 15,713,638 in 1949 (based on 1948 figures), if 6 million Jews are supposed to have perished in the Holocaust?

This typical piece of denier chicanery is explained fairly easily. Deniers like to make us think that the 1948 figure is the number of Jews in 1948, but it is not. The 1948 figures (quoted in the 1949 edition) are based on the 1938 - that is pre-war - census. The figures for 1949 are post-war and show a catastrophic drop in the Jewish population, down to 11,266,600. When you factor in the fact that the 1949 edition assessed the 1939 population at 16,643,120, you arrive at a difference of 5,376,520.

http://holocaust-history.org./denial/re ... m-qa.shtml
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Kallekula
Inlägg: 5393
Blev medlem: 24 maj 2005 17:23

Inläggav Kallekula » 09 apr 2010 00:37

Anarkoman

Låt oss som sagt börja på rätt sätt. Hur många judar försvann under ww2? För-efter. Vad tror du? Säg en sifffra och ange felmarginal och så finner du trovärdiga uppgifter som styrker detta. Accepterade siffror från forskarvärlden (och då snackar jag inte om några tokdårar utan väg samman  en helhet vad de har att säga). Sen kan vi snacka om metoderna. Är det ok?

Vi får ju börja i rätt ände, eller hur.
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Anarkoman
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Inläggav Anarkoman » 09 apr 2010 00:40

Alla vet att du är så kooool kalle du behöver inga smileys för att visa det.

Jag började läsa men då det mest såg ut som predikningar och extremt färgad text så tröttnade men.... stod det inte nåt om att nazistiska dokument och foton bevisade att det var dödsläger det var fråga om!?!? Ett sådant bevis skulle tysta min mun för all framtid! Kan du inte visa oss det Kalle?

Får be att få återkomma imorgon nu måste jag bajsa och sova!

tack för idag

mvh ankorman
"Alla människor vill andas men ingen kan andas och många säger: Vi skall andas sen och de flesta dör inte för de är redan döda" - Paris -68

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Kallekula
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Inläggav Kallekula » 09 apr 2010 00:51

Nja ja la inte dit några smileys i citatet. Texten är väl tänkt mest för högstadieelever så då kanske man måste slänga in lite sådant vem vet.   8)

Sen tar vi det i steg för steg. Hur många som dog och felmarginal, sedan metoder. Vi kommer komma dit. Lugn.
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Zokrates
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Inläggav Zokrates » 09 apr 2010 01:01

Kallekula skrev:
Zokrates skrev:
Rorschach skrev:
Euklides skrev:Det är inte poängen. Poängen är snarare hur vi ser på
historia och vad som anses vara helt vederlagt och framför allt vad som inte får diskuteras.


Har du något exempel på något sådant som inte får diskuteras?

Får eller inte får diskuteras, det finns väl inga förbud, däremot är det inte alltid politiskt korrekt att börja tala om alla de folkmord som olika ledande västländer begått före andra världkriget, för varför enbart fördöma Turkarnas folkmord på Armenier för 90 år sedan, men inte fördöma Engelsmännens dito folkmord och tvångsförflyttningar och det inte bara i mellanöstern utan runt om i världen som pågick under en bra mycket längre tid, för att inte tala om Tyskarnas, Belgarnas, Holländarnas och Fransmännens sammanlagt miljontals dödade, fördrivna och plundrade offer. När vi ändå är igång kan vi ju fördöma Tsarriket, Sovjetunionen, Kina, Japan, USA, Sydafrika, och så vidare tills ingen är utelämnad, inte ens romarriket eller det kortvariga  kung Davids Israel, eftersom folkmord och krig oftast inkluderat varandra.

Det enda raka hade varit att dra ett streck över allt som hänt före FN,s bildande, men då hade det ju även inkluderat förintelsen, men bortsett detta så verkar det ändå ganska uppenbart att det idag är ok att klandra muslimer men inte kristna för gamla illdåd, vilket klart visar att politiker inte skall ägna sig åt idiotiska fördömanden som bygger på att trycka på en ja eller nej knapp.


Tja varför totar du inte ihop något om att det som sägs om dem, enligt den gängse uppfattningen, att du ifrågasätter vad forskarna

säger etc. Mysko.

Nåväl vi har alla vår agenda, nu över till mer ref listor från mig.


Allvarligt, varför ber du mig tota ihop något, alltså att ljuga! Menar du att jag tidigare har ljugit i denna tråden, kan du peka på vad isåfall? Du har ju inte kunnat dementera något av det jag tvivlat på, däremot kommer Anarkoman med ett citat som ger mig vatten på min kvarn och tycks stödja de tvivlen jag har angående "rena dödsläger". Skall jag översätta texten åt dig eller klarar du av engelskan?


Anarkoman skrev:
That Treblinka served, among other things, as a transit camp to Majdanek and other work camps in the Lublin area is admitted even by the Jewish historians Tatiana Berenstein and Adam Rutkowski. In the verdict of the Demjanjuk trial in Jerusalem certain former Jewish deportees were named who arrived in Majdanek after a short stay in Treblinka. It is more difficult to prove that Jews were deported from Treblinka to the occupied Soviet areas, but at least one solidly documented proof exists. On July 31, 1942, one week after the opening of Treblinka, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, excitedly objected to Reichskomissar for the Eastern territories Heinrich Lohse against the transportation of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw to Minsk, on the grounds that these Jews represented a danger as potential carriers of epidemics and as supporters of the partisans. At that time all deported Jews from Warsaw arrived in Treblinka, so that those 1,000 Jews must have been sent through that camp to Minsk. This one transport already is enough to shake the foundations of the story of the "pure extermination camp," in which every Jew except for a handful of "work Jews" was immediately murdered. Whoever objects that this transport is merely an exception must ask himeself how many other such "exceptions" existed.


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Kallekula
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Inläggav Kallekula » 09 apr 2010 10:09

Allvarligt, varför ber du mig tota ihop något, alltså att ljuga!

Alltså jaha hur får du ihop det? Granntanten är runt 90 år och hon totar ihop saker, som är fel. Trots att allt talar emot det, men hon lyssnar inte på vad andra säger så hon får hållas i sin lilla värld. Men ljuger det gr hon inte.

Du har ju inte kunnat dementera något av det jag tvivlat på,

Kolla länkarna bilda dig en egen uppfattning.

Jo jag vet att du selektivt enbart finner texter som stöder din tes men bortser från majoriteten andra som talar emot. Vi kanske ska lyssna på vad experterna har att säga? De som arbetar med att just väga samman fakta och olika källor, uppgifter etc.  

Va! Har man ändrat synen på vad Treblinka var, vad som hände där?Antal döda,metoder för dödandet etc. Du kan väl skicka in en 10-20 länkar från etablerade erkända forskare som verifierar detta. Du vet de du kaskadkräks på, men jag tycker allt att det är värt att höra vad de hr att säga. Ändrad syn,  nya fakta. Det har jag missat.
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Zokrates
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Blev medlem: 14 maj 2007 02:27

Inläggav Zokrates » 09 apr 2010 13:35

Kallekula skrev:Kolla länkarna bilda dig en egen uppfattning.

Om du inte märkt det så har jag redan en egen uppfattning, vill du ändra på den så är det din uppgift att lämna fakta som klart och oemotsägligt styrker dina uppgifter, det har du ännu inte gjort, eller menar du att det räcker med opreciserade länkar?
Eleven som bara skrivit att rätt svar står i läroboken lär ju knappast få rätt på provet.

Kallekula skrev:Jo jag vet att du selektivt enbart finner texter som stöder din tes men bortser från majoriteten andra som talar emot. Vi kanske ska lyssna på vad experterna har att säga? De som arbetar med att just väga samman fakta och olika källor, uppgifter etc.

Jag är inte mer selektiv än de flesta, du själv då? Hur vore det om du presenterade något av vad dina sk. experterna hävdar istället för att enbart hänvisa till dessa experterna?

Kallekula skrev:Du vet de du kaskadkräks på, men jag tycker allt att det är värt att höra vad de hr att säga. Ändrad syn,  nya fakta. Det har jag missat.


Vad vet du vad jag kräks på? Är det en sak som jag ytterst sällan gör så är det att kräkas, de gånger jag gjort det kan jag räkna på mina fingrar.
Men du kanske menar att jag spyr ur mig galla i det jag skrivit, peka på var i så fall, det har du fortfarande inte gjort i denna tråden,
eller menar du att mina tvivel angående generella utsagor som inte enligt mig är helt styrkta är detsamma som att kaskadkräkas.

Du hittar fel som inte finns, men så är du ju inte precis den vassaste kniven i byrålådan, tolka det som du förmår. Lägger ned att svara dig fram tills dess att du har nått att komma med annat än masspostningar av länkar som du själv inte ens har läst.


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